Finale vs. Sibelius 7

8/16/2011 6:24:24 PM #

Good move! Go Finale!

derek

8/17/2011 9:47:28 AM #

It would be nice if this page actually had access to the audio comparison, instead of making visitors do more searching.
I'm all for cutting the crap that Sibelius has been putting out regarding Finale, but at least make it a bit easier to get to the info you're trying to put out there.

I spent quite a few minutes trying to figure out why the apparent links in this page weren't getting me any audio comparisons.

M.R.E.

8/17/2011 11:46:27 AM #

Scott, what I meant was that the links should be in this Blog.
It would be far simpler simply be able to click right here and get the samples.

As you may have already noticed, a Sibelius user on the MakeMusic Facebook page found it far too difficult to click more than one link... I think, for the benefit of our less computer-agile friends who are "avid" users of Sibelius, we might consider including direct links right here rather than making a user look up or manually type a new wen address to access the recordings.

M.R.E.

8/17/2011 6:42:28 PM #

Well - I would like to know what the basis of this comparison is. Siblius sounds way too bad in comparison with Finale - almost like a joke. But then again I looked at the Sibelius site, and they are offering these sound samples:

www.sibelius.com/.../...ssional_sound_library.html

The question then is: what are the 35 Gigs of sound library good for???
Do more with less - that seems to be Finale's approach, and I like that.

On the other hand: Please, Finale, don't miss the 64bit architecture!! It's about time, especially since you bring updates on a yearly basis - in my optinion, 64bit should already be supported! I hope 2012 will...

And - one thing, where Sibelius is INDEED ahead of Finale: think ideas to the end, and if necessary, bring updates more often. E.G:

- Cue Notes: When they require a clef change, those clefs can't be hidden

- Time Signatures: If large ones are used in the score, then there is a whole list of troubles comming up, when it comes to parts

- General Workflow: why are there no staff handles in Layout view??? It's very time consuming to always switch between staff view and layout view to just deal with layout.

And a whole lot more!

Anyway: Siblius still has a ong way to go in my opinion!

Robert Wildling

8/17/2011 9:08:00 PM #

Who removed my comment??

Robert Wildling

8/17/2011 10:33:12 PM #

Was about time to face Sibelius wicked marketing! As a university professor I always encourage the use of Finale among my students comparing Sibelius with a toy and Finale with a professional tool for musicians.

Luis Francisco Soto

8/17/2011 10:53:10 PM #

Hi Robert,

When we created these examples, we entered the music exactly as it would be on the printed page (so no use of hidden markings, etc) in a way someone entering a score would expect it to sound using default program behavior for basic musical markings.

As for the playback sounds, we made no adjustments to them. The sounds used are the defaults loaded from Finale's Setup Wizard using the Garritan Instruments for Finale, and the Sibelius 7 sounds in Sibelius 7.

You can certainly doctor both up, but many users don't have the skill or time to be able to do so, and we feel that Finale has the best default playback.

As for 64-bit support, that's something that's been on our wishlist for a long time as well. There's some significant engineering that needs to go into that, and hopefully we can have a 64-bit version soon.

As for your other suggestions, you're absolutely right. I've added your vote to the feature requests for these, and along with 6-bit support, hopefully will be in soon.

Thanks!

-Justin at MakeMusic

Justin Phillips

8/18/2011 2:33:51 AM #

- General Workflow: why are there no staff handles in Layout view??? It's very time consuming to always switch between staff view and layout view to just deal with layout.

^^ yeah thats realy anoying,wish they would fix that

gomakon

8/20/2011 8:37:35 AM #

Thank you, Justin, for your statements!! As for the approval, I realized only after I submitted the second message that this is a default behaviour. sorry for that. If you want, you can delete it.

Looking forward to 2012 - if there is one. I gues you won't tell us when, hmmm?

Robert Wildling

8/20/2011 8:45:57 AM #

Hi gomakon,

Absolutely, we'll look into that!

-Justin at MakeMusic

Justin Phillips

8/20/2011 8:47:40 AM #

Hi Robert,

No problem!

As for Finale 2012, yes we are planning a 2012 version! We did announce that it will be available sometime this fall, but unfortunately that's all I can share for now.

-Justin at MakeMusic

Justin Phillips

8/21/2011 7:54:57 PM #

It's a bit alarming that PLAYBACK is THE hot topic these days.  Having used Finale since 1988 and Sibelius since the original Acorn days (i.e. way before it was realeased for Mac and Windows) it's pretty obvious to any sober person that Finale, despite several shortcomings, is a way better tool for music NOTATION than Sibelius 7 is.  Sib 7 comes with some pretty realistic sounds, but overall, be it Finale or Sibelius, the truth is, if you've ever worked closely with a human symphony orchestra, the audible results produced by either program with its stock sounds, has nothing do to with reality. This is largely due to levels.  If you compose in Finale or Sibelius you will expect a ff to be comparatively equally loud in any instrument.  I just tested Sib7 sounds, and while some sounds sound really realistic, their ensemble levels are still off... a ff in the cello section sounds like a mf compared to the violas e.g...

Sibelius 7 does a lot of things right, though.. put a + on the horns and they play stopped, put a col legno on the strings and they do it, but the correct ensemble dynamic levels are only achived though hours of adjustments via fake dynamics and mixer adjustments.

I hope Finale will continue to focus on NOTATION.  We still need better spacing of grace notes - how about variable number of staves for any instrument or group on a system by system basis (rather than globally...) We could use better real-time Midi Transcription (remember the fantastic real-time Midi transcription in Motu's FreeStyle? (I known the guy is reluctant, but try again to lease his code, it's still... lightyears ahead of anything on the market today!!)

BTW, huge time signatures in the score and normal ones in the parts are straightforward in Finale. Just use Staff Styles

(Do hope there will be a Finale 2012...

fratveno

8/21/2011 10:17:02 PM #

Hope 2012 has an expanded sound library and is 64 bit.

Ralph LaVerne Bowers Jr.

8/24/2011 1:30:09 AM #

the sound of the software isn't important.
just import a third party sample library.

check out vsl...

I can't image anyone choosing one of these softwares for it's build in sounds.
Actually...the 64 bit fact isn't that important aswell.

I have been able to use all my 16gigs of ram with sibelius 6, using Jbridge!
it works with finale too : )

As a sibelius, I know I better keep my mouth shut : ) but..
the times where sibelius was considered a toy are long behind us.
And the build in plugins make me do things in seconds, that would take hours in finale. At the moment a lot of people are complaining about the new gui of sibelius 7. It just works like a train : )

I used to work with finale, and both softwares are very good.
both are able to make any score you could imagine,
you should decide wich workflow suits you the most, because they're quite different.

I myself use custom sample library and just love to work with sibelius' soundset editor. For professional engravers I can imagine Finale is still the best.
As a musician I think Sibelius wins, but again this is very personal.

n871

8/25/2011 10:21:27 AM #

I teach both notation software apps in one class. The students have generally said that the Sibelius sounds are better.

I should qualify which sounds they are tending to use. Perhaps this is where the differences between the included sounds can be found.

These students are mostly using the electronic sounds: electronic drums, synth basses, keyboards, etc. They don't seem as interested with the symphonic sounds. Their compositions do utilize a few natural instruments like pianos, organs, electric basses, analog drum sounds and percussion.

I haven't upgraded to Sibelius 7 and the 38GB of sounds so I can't say what instruments the bulk of that space is dedicated to. The webpage linked above in Robert Wildling's post mostly talks about symphonic sounds with brief mention of guitars, basses and drum sets. The focus seems to be on their new samples of symphonic instruments which do sound quite convincing in their mixes. I understand Justin's note about how heavy mixing/manipulation might have been involved to create those sounds but still they are impressive for a notation program!

Thanks for posting these samples. I think I will try some experiments of my own when we are able to upgrade to Sibelius 7 (& Finale 2012?).

Graham Spice

9/2/2011 12:00:56 PM #

I can't believe MakeMusic are resorting to this kind of strategy to promote their product. I'm disappointed. Instead of telling us why you think Finale is better or what it can do notation-wise that surpasses its competition, you try to bash the competition to prove that Finale is better ? Big Fail.

Instead of working on improving your software (to make it 64bit for example) you spend your time entering notes in both softwares to compare the sounds... There is not a single composer who will buy notation softwares based solely on the sounds they include. Many composers already have a library of sound that surpasses anything that comes with Finale or Sibelius. This is just an added bonus, not a selling point.

You should promote the features of your software instead.The comparison you have done is very subjective. Why not have someone from Finale (who knows Finale well) enter the music in Finale and someone from Sibelius ( or someone who knows how to use it properly) enter the music in Sibelius ? You could ask the Sibelius guys to do the same comparison and I bet the results would be the opposite because they know how to use their product better just like you know how to use yours better.

I own both and honestly, Sibelius sounds do not sound like that on my computer. Maybe you forgot to install the real sounds which are on other discs that come with the software...or you were using sounds from Sibelius 6 in Sibelius 7.

Send the score to Sibelius and have them export their version. Otherwise this comparison is biased and unethical.  On another note, you should update your comparison with notation examples of what Finale can do which Sibelius can't. It would be much more useful and objective.

BobGratton

9/5/2011 3:18:20 AM #

I agree with BobGratton. Here is a piece I did in Sib 5 using my own sound library. As you can see, Sibelius renders human playback quite well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXPoe5_oH-Q

Hans